Blackforce Vickers Mk. VI tanks in java

[Ryan]

Does anyone know what colour they were painted? They were sent from North Africa, but in the few photos I have, they look too dark to be left in a desert scheme. There's some indication that they may have a 2 colour disruptive scheme and there are no visible unit markings, war department numbers or squadron markings. They were from B squadron of the 3rd King's Own Hussars. Perhaps they did receive a more jungle friendly repaint before arriving in Sumatra or Java that covered their original markings? I can't find any information on the topic other than 2 black and white photos.

[Bluewillow]

Not a lot of info, the Australian War Memorial photo is the only three that are certainly in Java. I only know of one personal account from an Australian Brigadier source that may be of help.

Transcripts from Australian officer with black force

https://www.awm.gov.au/advanced-search ... e%20(Java)

English accounts from the hussars website
https://www.roll-of-honour.org.uk/Regi ... story.htm

This is the only book I know about the unit

https://www.aspect-design.net/product-p ... n-squadron

“As you were” Australian army stories also had an article in them, not sure which volume but I recall reading it. More about blackforce and Armoured carrs from memory though.

As for photos
On the docks, these do look like a disruptive type pattern was still in place looking at the shadow on the guards.
https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C297865


https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C297864


The captured Vickers 1946 certainly looks olive drab
https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1282931



Cheers
Matt

[David Reasoner]

I was going to post or link the couple of photos of the lone Mk.VIB abandoned on the Oosthaven, Sumatra pier, but Matt beat me to it. Those are unfortunately about the only decent photos I have seen. Many years ago, I had a lengthy debate with a fellow on the now-deceased Test of Battle forum over the likely colors of the Oosthaven tank. He insisted it was still in desert Caunter camo, and I disagreed. I think it far more likely the tanks were repainted before arrival in the NEI, but the matter remains open for argument.

About the only thing I can add to Matt's reply is the following postwar photo of a former B Squadron, 3rd Hussars Mk.VI recovered by the Dutch after some usage by the TNI (Indonesian Nationalists). Anybody's guess when or where the current paint scheme was applied:



David

[Tony Barton]

The picture showing the tank on the wrecked dock certainly doesn't look like a desert scheme, but exactly like the KG3/KG4 scheme used in the BEF, and on Home service in the period.
It's worth bearing mind that there was a sophisticated paint workshop run by the Royal Ordnance Corps in Abassia barracks in Cairo, and repainting vehicles would have been no trouble for them - they repainted all the vehicles for the WDF after they arrived from Britain.
I used to know an old chap in my village who worked there , and he was very scathing about the idea that British vehicles were given amateur paint jobs by their crews, using scrounged Royal Navy paint. Their paint was manufactured locally in a modern paint factory , also in Cairo, which was a large city with many modern industries.
So my bet would be KG3/KG4.

[Bluewillow]

I was going to post or link the couple of photos of the lone Mk.VIB abandoned on the Oosthaven, Sumatra pier, but Matt beat me to it. Those are unfortunately about the only decent photos I have seen. Many years ago, I had a lengthy debate with a fellow on the now-deceased Test of Battle forum over the likely colors of the Oosthaven tank. He insisted it was still in desert Caunter camo, and I disagreed. I think it far more likely the tanks were repainted before arrival in the NEI, but the matter remains open for argument.

About the only thing I can add to Matt's reply is the following postwar photo of a former B Squadron, 3rd Hussars Mk.VI recovered by the Dutch after some usage by the TNI (Indonesian Nationalists). Anybody's guess when or where the current paint scheme was applied:



David

Not seen that one before David

Cheers
Matt

[Ryan]

Thanks fellas,

That's useful information. This is exactly why I love my geeky hobby, I find this stuff so interesting. I didn't know about the paint depot in Cairo, but it makes sense. I don't recall if "B" squadron shipped out from Cairo, though, some figment of my memory is telling me they left from Palestine. That could be total balls, I will look it up. I'm going to go for KG3/KG4 and call it an educated guess. There's definitely signs of a disruptive pattern on the tanks on the dock, so fuggit. I like it. Thanks again, really fun information. I did my own extensive search, even on the Australian Memorial, but didn't get the same results. I think depending on the search engine and being in different countries influences your results in a variety of ways.